HOA Nut House

Thank you for posting. I can not stress enough how important it is to pay attention to what is going on in your HOA.

Homeowners provide the only "oversight" that exists in these associations.

Ed Meringer wrote:

"HOAs are meant to keep our communities looking nice, not for ripping us off."

Wrong. HOAs are meant to increase developers' control and profit, decrease services by local government, and provide secured flow of income for management and lawyers.

The tickling you feel in your back pocket isn't a friendly woman sitting next to you in a bar--it's your HOA property manager lifting your wallet.

As per my Topic: http://hoanewsnetwork.com/media/forums/all-my-money-and-yours-too.php

I live in Continental Ranch Community in Tucson, Az. I have been reading over our audits and budgets, which of course, don't add up.

The audit reports have been removed from the public web site, but please look at these "nominal" fines we are being charged and tell me that they really are "nominal!

http://www.continentalranchca.com/deltaExpressDoc.htm

Click "Select" at the top right and choose Minutes-Covenants Committee 2007 and choose any subject.

I could not put them on here individually but please take a few minutes to look at these (pick any one month if you are in a hurry). In our annual budget it tells us that CRCA (Continental Ranch Community Association) will bring in roughly $20,000 in CC&R violation "fines". This site is a mess to find anything, and the audits have been removed.

For the month of August ALONE I came up with $12,000!! Now if only HALF of these people just pay the fines to get these money-grubbing bastards out of their (our) hair, that's $6000/MONTH!!

If there is anyone out there that can tell me just how legal all this is, please step in at any time.

Oh my, this information is frightning, our community's board is considering turning our park, over to this management company " Rossmar Graham", not good news for we homeowners !
Homeowners need to be aware of their board's plans.
If Mr Meringer is sec/tres & on the board at Palm Gardens & is speaking out against these management companies, then it must be true, how scarey is all of this?

Rossmar & Graham certainly does NOT = CAI nor the Leadership Centre. They do indeed support & participate in the organizations as clearly indicated in their website. It is common practice, as I am sure you are aware, for businesses to be members of organizations with common business ties. To say Rossmar & Graham = CAI is to say that Scottsdale Fashion Square or Barret Jackson= Scottsdale Chamber of Commerce. Affiliation & a common goal are not indicative of equality.

Management Companies will indeed make billing errors. They are staffed by humans, who are imperfect. When problems arise, I have found them to quickly remedy the situation. Certainly no one has ever found human error in their workplaces, right? *sarcasm mode off*

Not all management companies are perfect, however Rossmar & Graham is truly one of the best. Members of a homeowner's association will fare FAR better with representation by a professional management company than they can on their own. Professional management companies will steer the volunteer, elected BOD toward the letter of the law, and dissuade any abuses of power, whereas you will not benefit from that same security should you have a BOD that is running amuck & power drunk.

Regarding "Angry's" post-
Budgeting for violation fines in excess of 20K in a given year is absolutely ridiculous. Fines are NEVER to be used as a revenue generating "machine". Fines are a LAST RESORT to enforce the CC &R's of a community. The purpose of a "violation" is to enforce the rules & regulation of the community. The goal is to get the homeowner to comply with the rules everyone else lives by. Unfortunately, some persons are only driven to comply under the "threat" of monetary penalty.

What I want to know is this: Is it legal for these people to charge $15/25/100 and even as high as $500 PER DAY?? And when they do, this money is never accounted for. I have tracked every penny that is made public, going in. I have yet to see where it is going into any bank accounts or toward any REAL investment in our community.

I go to meetings. They claim that all excess cash goes into reserve. I do not run for the BOD because my boyfriend owns the house. We are not married. He has signed a proxy to me, but in order to run, I was told by an attorney that I need his power of attorney, something I don't feel I'm in the position to ask for. He does not have time to run himself.

There is a lot more going on then what I have stated. We are in the process of recalling all of our board members. There is nothing that they do that is legal as far as I can see. We have a petition. It has been signed by 1560 members, 41% of our 3790 home community, to recall ALL of the current board members. State law requires 20%. They gave us the run-around. They say they "don't have to go". Five of the members have since resigned, and the management company has given it's notice. This was the next thing we were going to do when the board was recalled. They have now decided to appoint NEW board members without any concent from "the people". There have been several people who have put their names into "the hat" to be nominated. They were told "they would be considered". They have n ot been considered.

This is a farce to get the entire board back where it once was. You see, the law states that you can only recall a member of the board once per term. So all they have to do is reappoint one-another until they have all resigned and are all reappointed back on the board.

I'm not sure if it's a loop-hole, but I believe if they are re-appointed it begins a new term.

My belief is, they are stalling because they need time to clean up bank accounts/records. I have requested certain documents, only to be given the run-around.

There's your nutshell...tell me what you think now.
~Angry

If one can compare the PUD/HOA scheme to medical staff.....

HOA with volunteer board is like the family doctor.
Management companies are like the surgeon.

Both can skillfully remove money from your pocket. The surgeon is the specialist. Look out.

Our development became involved with Rossmar-Graham when Rossmar purchased Graham. I was the board president at the time, we never had any problems with Graham, but with Rossmar the last straw was when they forgot to bill a quarterly assessment. Another one to avoid at all costs is Perferred Communities in Mesa.

My community has hired Rossmar graham about a year ago and since then the neighborhood has never been the same with fines that are out of control and hoa board members feeling that there high and mighty. I've have now become on there watchfull eye for landscaping my backyard ,(and no theres nothing over the fence line ) but there was other mods. that they didn't feel they liked so now i get letters that i fight and notices that won't stop , most of the time its the same notice over and over again but the fines are higher and higher . When i call and talk to these people the only time i get to talk to someone in person is 5 days after i leave a message when they call me back.They say they are going to take care of it and don't worry. Then 10 days later i get anouther letter for something else. It never stops . I seem to have found myself anouther full time job just fending them off .this property managment company is a joke. i have now started to get other home owners together that feel the same way as i do to get rid of who ever it takes to make our community the way it was and not with the money hungry Rossmar Graham.
On anouther note since rossmar graham has come into our community , they use there lawyer to handle everything that isn't just a simple home owner roll over and pay . If you so much as question them on anything they will refuse to talk to you and send you staight to there lawyers and then they try to add 250.00 to some random fee that you had nothing to do with. Its amazing what these people are getting away with and they will keep doing so because everyone is scared to death that there going to loose ther homes.

Don't pay your fines...

"Don't be so quick to judge wrote:
Legal versus enforceable....that is the key here.

Can they charge it? Absolutely.
Can they collect it? Probably not.

AZ came out with legislation awhile back that made assessments the ONLY "forecloseable" event. The only true means in which an HOA can collect on violation fines is to file in conciliation court. Whenever you're dealing with a "soft cost" such as a violation fine, the judge is going to look at whether or not the claim is valid or punitive. If an HOA is truly assessing $500 a day for a violation, I have a seriously hard time believing they are going to find an official who doesn't deem that punitive and throw the case out. * disclaimer note- I'm not an attorney & all legal matters should be discussed with appropriate counsel*

True, in AZ and several other states fines for violations can be charged but not enforced without a court judgment, pursuant to statute. But this is not the whole story.

Monetary fines are punitive by definition. Regardless of what the CC&Rs or statutes say, they are ILLEGAL as such. If the alleged violation has caused damages, then it can be claimed and collected, but not as a "fine" but as actual damages.

If the alleged violation is of a temporary nature (e.g. trash can is out after 5 pm, weeds in the front yard, etc.), it can be easily corrected before the first court hearing, and the case should be dismissed -- I can't imagine anybody claiming "damages" from such violations. If OTOH the violation is more permanent (e.g. new structure, unapproved exterior paint, etc.), a claim for equitable relief or injunction may be granted, but again it will be hard to demonstrate damages.

Why am I asserting again that FINES for violations are illegal, even when the CC&Rs and/or the statutes expressly allow them? Because a CC&Rs or Rule violation is not a tort but rather a breach of contract, and Contract Law does not permit penalties for breach. Both the US Supreme Court and AZ (as well as other states) Supreme Court have ruled so regarding OTHER private contracts, but unfortunately it seems that nobody has ever used this argument regarding HOA fines.

It's about time! If anybody is in the situation of being sued for FINES (as distinguished from damages, injunction or equitable relief), please contact me (mikabrainy@gmail.com)-- I have the case law to support my assertion."

This was from someone else, but I thought I would use it because it sounds good to me.

Hello All. I am a newbie here and have spent some time reading through a lot of the postings. I am for HOA's without them getting out of hand. The management company that I have personally had the best luck with has been Preferred Communities in Mesa. I think so far they are the most ethical and easy to get along with management company yet that I have encountered. Note: I own over 50 properties all over the valley, so I have had my share of run-ins with HOA's. I think if people could communicate without going off the deep end with these companies, perhaps they would get better results as I have with mine.
Best of luck.
Drew.

Drew, you sound like you work for Preferred Communities. I too have dealt with a number of management companies in my time. I would say that PC ranks right at the bottom. The owner makes decisions without regard to the ARS code, and he has very little experience in HOA matters. You should check his billing, talk about legalized theft, he charges for every little thing, including paperclips.

I own several high end properties that I have a contract with Fortune 500 companies, in which I rent the homes to executives that will be in the valley for a short time 12-18 months and are usually from overseas. One property is located in Carriage Parc Estates in Gilbert, AZ. Preferred Communities the managing agent, had declared for all rentals, a criminal background check would have to be completed and turned over to the board for their inspection. First of all, I attempted to reason with them that a criminal background check was confidential, but they wouldn't back down, until I asked them how am I supposed to do a criminal record check on someone that lives in Taiwan.

Rossmar & Graham? Absolutely stay away from them. Money hungry, rude, owned by mega corporation. You'll go broke with Rossmar & Graham. I cannot stress this enough - STAY AWAY from them. If you are using them, check your contract, look closely at your financials for errors, and talk to your homeowners that have had contact with them for anything. You'll hear lots of horror stories. They love to control your checkbook, and want Board members to take the back seat and "do as their told" like good little children.

As to the advice above regarding Rossmar & Graham....DITTO!!

Nothing but bad management and they are only interested $$$$$, getting yours!!!!!

Pat
www.CHORE.us

Can HOAs really assess a fine for parking a work vehicle in your own driveway? The truck doesn't fit in the garage and there is no RV gate. Whate are we supposed to do, get a new job that doesn't require that I drive a truck. The truck I am being fined for is a new one with only a ladder rack on it. Does anyone else have experience in fighting this type of violation?

HOAs can do whatever they want to to you without recourse unless you want to sue. The local government cannot help you and your neighbors want to stay out of the HOAs radar... I moved as soon as I could to an area where the county enforces the covenants of the neighborhood. In my old HOA a POLICE OFFICER was told he could not park his work vehicle in sight!!!!!

My house was listed on Cyberhomes as foreclosure of which I had no knowledge of what was going on. Through investigation by calling the mortgage bank to find out why when I was updated on my payments. I was fortunate to find out that is was because the Association had listed my home for non-payment of association dues. My association dues is $135.00 a year and now they want me to pay more than $1,500.00. I never got any mail or notice pertaining their action in listing my property as a foreclosure. Please advise what rights do I have to fight this in court.

Thank you.

Maria Abreu
(714)484-0403